Session Notes – C01.S03.15
Cycle 01 | Shield 03 | Session 15 | Notes |
What happens in this scene?
So I’m faced with either moving right into the Ice Pit Riot (skipping the day in between) or giving another quest in between…
It cannot be a mult-day thing – so very local to Easthaven or Good Mead
The hag in the Cliff Caves of Xover is still outstanding. The party does not even know much yet… just that someone was cooking people and using their bones to make magical people. Perhaps there has been more activity… perhaps a militia from Easthaven went to investigate and have not returned? Perhaps Samsam and Melthor went with them? Is it silly to run two rescue missions in the same location? Happens often enough in ESO…
Next Cycle…
Start writing these Notes as chat between Cadell and Kinney.
I could also pull another quest from the Rimemaiden…
What else?
I need to explain Hocus and Mo Ka Bu splitting ways
The Red Drakes could need some help (save this for later… show that Samsam and Melthor have joined them)
Other characters to bear in mind…
- Red Drakes (Samsam and Melthor)
- Yazga (and Pax and Axe)
- Gornrik Snowguster (in fact, perhaps I need to insert him into Skirmish somehow?)
- Saarvin and Sabyss (Roller is in Fireshear… but will be taken before the end of the Fray Games)
- Ellerika (appears in Ice Pit Riot fighting Koza)
- Nim and Norli Bragos (and Tronk)
- Hocus Ravengaze
- The Grimmantle party of adventurers might make some return
vNPCs to bear in mind…
- Maud Chiselbone (Hag in Cliffs of Xover)
- Sephek Kaltro
- Pakbak Cinderfoot
- Screaka (Vampire Owlin… she has spies)
- (Whoever) leads the ring of human traffikers
Maybe Saarvin brings news that there were thefts overnight – suspiciously similar to how the Gracks operated in Fireshear… with Hundlestone being reclaimed by the gnomes – the Gracklebacks had to go somewhere… perhaps some are in Tentowns?
for the stones skirmish, we switched up the action descriptio and used an alternate combat determination
what to do for ice pit riot?
for skirmish, you could leave the arena but not return
for riot, you cannot leave until two of three fall and fail to stand
anything goes, magic, cheating, etc…
magic affects are somehiw muted beyond the pit
I think since party only needs ome win , the riot session will involve watching many oyhers fight
First three to enter after horn sounds
Tag bearers are on deck, perhaps six of them? 9?
First three of those on deck
or maybe, three ice pits?
with the deck standing in the middle
or maybe a judge rolls a dice to choose?
but… how will combat be different?
does it need to be?
no, but maybe yes…
so table outcomes are no good, not for the PCs
NPCs can use tables, or mere story
maybe some extra boons?
temp hp equal to hp? for all?
crit on 19 & 20?
or maybe spectator interference?
or maybe random environmental threats? Darkness spells?
or maybe it is just a combat?
on ice
which helps dawndra
what if the pitfloor wasso slick that every melee attack roll required an acro check to succeed?
certain things can give advantage on the roll, like Dawndras ability to adhere to ice
ranged or magical attacks would not be affected unless character moves
but that gives them advantage…
how to remove?
ice storm? ice cyclone
nah
what then?
maybe the ground moves?
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions#TOC-Flat-Footed
stand still longer that 5 seconds and you will be pinned? But will that limit magic users?
No… magic users will have the advantage here… they had none at all in the skirmish – in fact the opposite. So there should be very few magic users… although any melee fighter could be using magic
What needs to be settled is how the three contestants of any round are selected.
Maybe I need to look at logistics of numbers… skirmish had how many? 183
Anyone who survived the slaughter of Skenscarn got a free win… so how many died and could not be revived? 41 say dice – so 142 remain to fight in the Ice Pit Riots
142 / 9 = 15.7778
If each round is 9 contestants (3 rings of 3 fighters each) then 15 rounds gives everyone 1 round. 30 if everyone 2 rounds, 45 gives everyone 3 rounds
Let us say each round is less than ten minutes – including time to set next round… that means 6 rounds per hour 45 / 6 = 7.5 – it will take seven and half hours of pit fights to get thru that many contestants…
One thing I forgot… gambling…
Surely that is a big attraction of the Fray Games. Surely it is not illegal in the frontier of Icewind Dale… Contestants are not allowed to gamble? Nah… they probably are… who cares
But this means I need to go back… probably all the way to Fireshear episode – have Saarvin talk about the bookers. Then at the opening ceremony, add something about the gambling – perhaps there is a table where you can place early bets – which pay out the highest.
The games bring in a lot of money… because Bryn Shander runs the bookers – every dollar lost goes into a pocket… Easthaven gets a cut, as does Good Mead… but since Dougans Hole refuses to allow anyone into their town they get nothing – and largely they are fine with it.
Back to selection process
Two wooden platforms stand in the middle of three large ice pits, one higher than the other. When the first horn sounds, 9 tag bearers stand on the higher platform and 9 more are let in from the larger ground to the on-deck platform. There is a tray with 5 flat stones, each with a pip carved into one side. The tray goes around the upper platform, one ring at a time. Each tag-bearer scoops up the stones and then tosses them back into the tray. If 3 or more land pip-up, the tag-bearer waves their contestant into that ring. This continues until two of the three rings are full (the third being filled with the remainder)
Kildar faces off against Gornrik and… a familiar half-elf
Who is this young half-elf girl? A caster obviously… a natural caster… a sorcerer. A Stander…
Some modifications perhaps… but she can manifest her spirit as a physical being
Alyrora Neri
Koza, Ellerika, and Marsden
Somewhere I wrote notes about the existing feud between Koza and Ellerika… but I’m not finding in my notes here… nor in my email (which I really need to do a better job of transfering over to here…)
Here is what I remember… Ellerika was her fathers Tag Bearer in the fray games a year or two ago. They were on the final event – the Frost Troll Head Roll. They encountered a Yeti, or a pack of Crag Cats, or something… and her father was seriously injured. Koza was camping in a nearby cave and, hearing the conflict, came to the rescue of Ellerika and her father. But no good deed goes unpunished… somehow Ellerika got a hold of Koza’s chain weapon and she abandoned both Koza and her father for dead. Her father did die in that cave, but Koza did not, and neither has her anger.
Dawndra
Who shall Dawndra fight against? Yazga? Pakbak? Both seem too obvious. Tronk? Nah… Roll some new NPCs? ok
1 | 4 & 3 Druid Elf |
2 | 6 & 6 Monk Halfling |
3 | 10 & 4 Sorceror Gnome |
4 | 6 & 2 Monk Dwarf |
5 | 5 & 6 Fighter Halfling |
6 | 8 & 9 Ranger Exotic |
2d6 = 5 & 2
Halflings… one monk, one fighter
Is the Monk male or female?
Even | Male |
Odd | Female |
1d10 = 3 Female
Is the Fighter male?
1d10 = 7 Female
So three women in the pit – one a 7 and a half foot naked giant with polar bear fur and a 10 foot long ice needle and two others which barely stand above Dawndra’s knees. This must be a challenge and I will let the dice have their way… Dawndra only needs one win for the games to go
on for our story… and if she loses this match, I can briefly summarize a later win.
Who are these two halflings?
First
1 | Vane glensurge |
2 | Brehaly swiftwater |
3 | Elirana stillbrand |
4 | Xanzana nimbleeye |
5 | Gelrana ravenbelly |
6 | Lidni dustseeker |
7 | Isagrace lighteyes |
8 | Jilzana sunshine |
9 | Darula underkettle |
10 | Qugwen springgrove |
Last
1 | Lena tallberry |
2 | Eiara thistleman |
3 | Calmita boulderfingers |
4 | Fayree sunfeet |
5 | Eikis deepdance |
6 | Rialyn amberbrace |
7 | Calora brightfellow |
8 | Eracey autumnfoot |
9 | Belfira leafflow |
10 | Leris glenbrand |
1 | 9 & 6 Darula Amberbrace |
2 | 5 & 8 Gelrana Autumnfoot |
3 | 3 & 3 Elirana Boulderfingers |
4 | 8 & 9 Jilzana Leafflow |
5 | 6 & 1 Lidli Tallberry |
6 | 4 & 5 Xanzana Deepdance |
4 & 5
Jilzana Leafflow… Jixana Leafwhirly
Lidli Tallberry… Linli Wallberry
Is Jix the Fighter?
[()] No
Linli Wallberry – Strongheart Halfling Fighter
Jixana Leafwhirly – Lightfoot Halfling Monk
Linli
18 12 16 08 12 10
AC 16 HP 50
+5 1d8 +3 or 8 (*2)
Jix
10 18 12 10 14 14
AC 16 HP 40
+5 1d6 +3 or 6 (*3)
Linli is from the south. Possible connection to Nim Bragos? [()] Yes. She is from Memnon then… We know she was not with Nim and Norli on their travel North so she likely sailed… because she prefers it? Yes – she must then be more of a pirate than a paladin… a Swashbuckler skilled with blades… duel short swords. Any magic? [()] No
Jix is local… From the Black Raven Monastery. She fights unarmed as was the way of Valas. She is participating in the games as a cover for her real objective… to discover agents of The Knout in Tentowns (although she is rather excited about competing…). I don’t know that Dawndra and Jix will have any reason to compare notes… or the time… but I think it is possible that Jix gets herself captured by The Knout… and when the party arrives to rescue Roller, Jix is there with her. That should be fun… So then Jix must make a big impression here in the Ice Pit Riots
The Way of the Blade Hand
Masters of Force Shaping, unarmed attacks are made with force magic. A knife hand thrust can do Piercing damage, or the edge of the knife hand can be used as an ultra sharp force blade for slashing damage. Normal kicks and punches all do extra Force damage equal to proficiency bonus. These do not require ki expenditure – but only work as long as the monk has ki points to use.
Session Notes – C01.S03.14
Notes |
What happens in this scene?
I initially planned on introducing Mo Ka Bu to the party later on, but things being what they are – I took a bunch of left turns and wound up here thinking this may be the perfect time to bring him into the fold. The party wakes outside the forest of Screaka, but Ellrrilka is missing. In her place is a Wood Elf named Mo Ka Bu. He will party on with this group through next cycle and when everyone joins the Wardens Guild, Marlon places him with the Everwelte and puts Brava and Rodan in with the North Tower (I keep changing this… is it The Northern Towers or just The North Tower Shield? Heck… at this point I can make it whatever I want with a little work… or I can save the work and stick with Northern Towers)
Mo Ka Bu is in Tentowns with Hocus. They have been traveling together for the better part of DR1491. They were sharing a ride to Easthaven with several contestants of the Fray Games and like our party, they were sent unexpectedly to meet their deaths at the beak of Screaka. However, it turns out Screaka honors the Elvish race and is even a bit superstitious about doing any harm to any full blooded elf. (Half-elves are a different story apparently)
Go back to the end of last episode and fill things out further. More ice mephits… the entire ampitheater is fogged in this time. They hear a woman screaming (Elrika?) and then others. Give the impression that more victims have been brought to the tree-top temple… then the blackout.
They awake to find Hocus and Mo Ka Bu among their number (Elrika is stll missing – she will return in the Ice Pit Riot fighting Koza – who has a score to settle – and does)
How to run the Skirmish game?
Three Rounds in the Event
You must be standing within the stones when the third horn sounds
It is everyone for themselves – no magic (which is verified after each round)
Three types of opponents – Strength Based, Dexterity Based, and ‘Other’.
Although the event is a chaos of people trying to push and shove and even throw each other outside of the circle, I need a way to represent this with dice.
3 out of 5 conflict wins will win a round
A conflict is a contest roll between a randomly chosen opponent and a PC.
Choose the opponent
1d6 |
Opponent |
1 -2 |
+0 – Neither Str or Dex |
3 |
+1 Dex Based |
4 |
+2 Dex Based |
5 |
+3 Str Based |
6 |
+4 Str Based |
PC can roll either Athletics or Acrobatics Check which is contested a roll with selected bonus above. Highest result wins. 3 out of 5 wins the conflict. PC must win 3 conflicts to win a round.
[review]
As its going, it is feeling uninspired… the first rolls I recorded so it could be seen what was happening – but it’s a lot of rolls so I decided to not show them all. How to mix this up? Make it more interesting?
Two ideas strike…
First – the PC can be double-teamed by opponents – especially the large and intimidating ones… opponents can roll with advantage against the PC. How can that table be turned? PCs can join together to gain advantage on rolls too. How to rule when either happens? A simple y/n dice roll?
Second – the ‘Player’ can describe the action. I’ve been meaning to find a spot for this to happen… maybe this is it. I describe the opponent(s), indicate rolling is taking place, announce the winner and allow the PC to describe the action in first person
[]
[Further review]
I’m liking the outcome much better… in fact I might use this 3 our ot 5 approach more often – especially when it’s a brawl or wrestle where weapons and magic have no place. It is fun to have the PC perspective… I need to include that a lot more often going forward
[]
Now… we get to the 3rd round.. My ideas on how to run this have fluctuated… Sephek is using the stones combined with the souls of all the victims he has killed with his ice rune daggers. The stones glow faintly – on close inspection someone might see the rune shapes in the glow. – investigation check? Perception? I still get these confused…
In 5e, Perception covers the basic senses: sight, hearing, smell, touch and taste.
When deciding if a roll should be a Perception or an Investigation roll, it comes down to the difference between observation and deduction. Perception gives a broad picture or discovery found within the scene, while Investigation focuses on interpreting the clues found with Perception checks.
Investigation represents your character’s ability to pay close attention to detail when searching a location, researching a topic, or analyzing a circumstance.
However, there is one sure way to know if Investigation is more applicable than Perception:
How much time is the character devoting to the search?
Perception works on what characters notice with a glance. Investigation is a targeted search.
So then… an Investigation check will notice the rune designs in the glow – and then the first horn of the 3rd round will sound.
Sephek has just a couple of stones left to charge, and when he does… what happens? I like the idea of Sephek himself becoming the giant monster to fight… (what is the mechanic for that?) but do I want the PCs to actually fight and destroy Sephek himself? If he summons a monster, it will appear in the center of the stones and everyone in the arena will be without their weapons. That actually makes more sense… maybe… Sephek wants to draw the soul of the summoned monster … if so, his plan is to summon in the midst of the event, let the monster destroy as much as possible, and then use his magic rune vortex thingy on it… it may just make him too powerful for the characters to challenge. If so, then Sephek may return at some later time. Maybe… the process of absorbing destroying the beast he summons is overwhelm for him and he collapses. He will look like a hero to the crowd, but Dawndra will know better… that is a fun conflict!
So what is this monster? Not Thrunn… but something from another plane – an ice plane. It seems a Frost Giant is warranted… but what kind? Not one from the local area… There is a Plane of Ice – of course.
Ogtarn
Zertarn
Gartarn
Gentarn
Skentarn
Skenscarn*
Skenscarn is a Frost Giant from the Plane of Ice. He is no ordinary Frost Giant however… he is also a wererazor (Razordon). This form of lycantropy has never been seen in the realms before, and Sephek wants the disease
Yazga
So I decided to bring her into play here – if only to boost the threat for some actual encounter. I gave her, willy-nilly, an intimidation feat and she used it right away against Dawndra. Now I’m trying to decide what mechanic to use. Oh… dah… I already did this with Roonoo’s subclass I think… Agression Tactics…
As a bonus action you can spend 1Ki and Intimidate the target (by performing some daunting martial arts movement or a battle cry etc) – they must Wisdom save on DC saving throw against your Intimidation skill (8 +Prof +Chr). On fail the target becomes “shaken”. A shaken character takes a penalty on attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws equal to your Intimidation Skill bonus.
Session Notes – C01.S03.13
Cycle 01 | Shield 03 | Session 13 | Notes |
What happens in this scene?
I initially had planned to go straight from Opening Ceremony to the first event of the games – The Stones Throwdown… but then I remembered the first time I wrote through this idea – a couple years back now – a trick was played on the PCs. The transport wagon taking them to Easthaven did not go to Easthaven but instead led them into a trap where they were attacked by crag cats.
I’m going to do the same, well, similar. The transport driver (along with his son) are paid (probably by Pakbak, but it could be any contestant at this point) to waylay their passengers. At this point, any tricks to remove contestants are fair game. Well… not fair… but the point is, their gold is in the pot. If they meet with unfortunate circumstances in between events they effectively lose the games and their gold goes to the winners. So the times in between the dangerous events are even more dangerous if there are any who would play dirty – and of course there are plenty this year.
I could not find a name for the forest that appears along the south of the Eastway between Bryn Shander and Easthaven… so I named it. Wayvern Silva. It is a dark forest with a thick canopy. The ground within sees very little snow and almost no light when the canopy is frozen with snow. Occasionally chunks of frozen snow may fall into the forest, glittering its way to the forest floor as ice crystals.
My first thought was to use the Gnoll Vampires from the Rime of the Frostmaiden adventure. Having read up a bit, I decided to leave them in the glacier (Tekeli-li) but I still wanted vampires to be the threat within the forest. So I did a search on monsters by habitat/environment and at the top of that list was the Giant Owl. Then it occurred to me that we have a new playable race of owl like beings from Strixhaven – the Owlin Race (or this). I decided to create an Owlin Vampire (vNPC) and give him/her a small troop of Giant Owl Thralls
Should this vNPC be male or female? [()] Female.
What are names like for Owlin? This resource gives descriptor names like Beak, Gizzard, etc
Maybe something like Screech? Screek? Screaka? Yes, Screaka.
Screaka is not from the Realms originaly… but from the Frostfell. She was banished from the plane by magic, but found her way to Icewind Dale where she found food far more plentiful – and the competition for it weaker. She began collecting Giant Owls to make Thralls of. She and her thralls have made Wayvern Silva home for over a year now.
Perhaps I ought to go back the first trip to Easthaven and include some rumor of dangerous owls? Maybe a warning not to travel the stretch until after first shadow – and certainly never during nhyx. And no matter how appealing the shelter of Wayvern Silva may appear – do not enter its shadow… something like that.
Even after handicapping Screaka from the default Vampire, she is still formidable and may be too much for Level 3 (original CR was 13…)
So I have this much
Party leaves Bryn Shander via pre-arranged transport sled
The transport driver and his son bail out, sending the sled headlong into the Wayvern Syliva.
There is a combat encounter with Giant Vampire Owls (Thralls of Screaka)
Screaka enters the combat at some point
Maybe that is too simple
I don’t want this session to drag out into multiple sessions… but it needs more.
Perhaps the Giant Owls steal one or more party members and fly away into the dark of Wayvern Silva – then the rest of the party must seek them out in the dark – find the lair of Screaka.
Who is on the transport?
Dawndra & Shent
Kildar & Rivereyes
Elly Rrika & ??? Maybe her husband? Father?
How many Owl Thralls are there? 2d4
[()] 5
So then 5 of the 6 party members are nabbed – or a nab is attempted – by owl thralls
DC 13 Dex Save
If fail, give another chance to wrestle free while in the air
DC 15 Str Save
See how it plays out… if a PC is taken, it might get interesting trying to split the party. If NPC only, then obviously there is a choice to be made – and of course they will try to save them for the sake of adventure and because of their Good alignments.
The Lair of Screaka
This is what was missing before… a location to explore within Wayvern Silva. What would an Owlin Vampire Lair look like? Borrow something from nature… perhaps… or what if there is structure within the forest – long abandoned. Would it have been Frost Giants? I’ve done plenty of that so far. It would not be Redhedmen, nor human. Gnomes maybe? Or Duergar? What if there is an entrance to Underdark within the forest? Gnomes…
Within the depths of Wayvern Silva is a long-abandoned Gnomish temple to Baervan Wildwanderer. The temple looks like a massive nest of branches that encompasses a dozen or more trees – something like a beaver damn hoisted into the tree tops. Within the nest are many passage ways and small rooms – all gnome-high – with the exception of the main worship chamber which is much larger. This is where Screaka made her lair. The original altar to Baervan remains along with many valuable items ‘sacrificed’ to the deity by gnomes hundreds of years ago. Not that it matters now, but the temple was once called Fastpaws Mantle. The temple is quite old, and sections have fallen away. Climbing the structure has a risk of falling along with chunks of the ancient raised structure.
The thralls deliver food to a chamber on top of Fastpaws Mantle to await feast hour. The party will have to climb the trees to rescue captured members. Maybe set a timer here? If they can make it the rooftop of the temple within so many minutes, then Screaka does not appear?
Session Notes – C01.S03.12
Cycle 01 | Shield 03 | Session 12 | Notes |
What happens in this scene?
Party has left Alzvar on Uktar 4 and lets assume they arrive in Bryn Shander late on Uktar 5. There are still 15 days before the Fray games begin. I am itching to get to the main event of this cycle… but much can happen in 15 days… it hasn’t even been 15 days since we started in Luskan.
What remains undone?
The Ice Rune killer
The hag in cliffs of Xover
Dawndra does not know why the burnt halfling is so intent on destroying her… but Pakbak will be in the games
Kildar Dalar has yet to surface – but he appears in the first round of the games – which is probably next sessions
The kidnapping of Rolller won’t happen until after the games
I probably need to go back and rewrite the package from Nim… it seems extraneous to have two packages… I should change that bit and have Nim ask Dawndra just to find the Red Drakes and help them deliver their package to Alzvar (rather than introducing a second package). This is not critical – maybe save it for a rewrite.
Perhaps what happens next is a recap of 15 days and then go straight to the opening ceremony in Bryn Shander. Someone in that ceremony is found dead shortly afterwards – ice rune dagger in their chest. Maybe it even happens during the ceremony. Who is it? A major contender Maybe an Artic Dwarf? Shent will know him of course. Gornrik Snowguster.
There is a brawl… Dawndra will see Pakbak initiatie it. When the dust clears, Gornrik lies dead with an Ice Rune Dagger thru his heart.
Also, I think Kildar will be seen but perhaps not yet ‘play’
Kofa makes a quick appearance – sober friendly towards Dawndra “Friend Dawndra! We still must spill cups yes?”. She may still be under Pakbak ownership, but is genuinely pleased to see Dawndra. Is Kofa competing as well? No. Kofa is to Pakbak what Shent is to Dawndra – except that she is a slave – an unwilling guide and assistant.
What else? Maybe nothing else is needed?
Gather in Bryn Shander for Opening Ceremonies
Introduce some in the crown there – Saarvin, Tronk, Kildar, Gornrik, Kofa, Yazga (Axe! Pax!)
There is the reading of the rules. Shortly before it is finished, the brawl breaks out
Gornrik is discovered dead
Confrontation with Torg’s Merchantry
At some point, the Ice Rune killer comes after Dawndra – perhaps right before Round Three. But it is this session where Torgga Icevein is encountered and her thugs (minus Sephek Kaltro) are fought.
Easthaven hosts the Games after the Opening Ceremonies (which are, not surprisingly, held in the market to draw coin from the participants and those who travelled here to watch the games.) So after the confrontation, there is another trip to Easthaven.
Should I introduce Elarilka? Perhaps Shent and Dawndra share a transport sled with Elarilka and her husband, Tungvald. Use the same bit… their sled, they discover eventually, is not traveling to Easthaven directly but the driver has been paid to take them elsewhere. There is a young boy in the transport who carries a big skin filled with liquid. As they near a forest area, the boy stabs the skin and sprays blood over Dawndra and the others in the transport and then jumps from the sled, along with the driver (his father). The sled runs uncontrolled into the forest where there is a tribe of Vampire Gnolls (pg 292 of frostmaiden)
Depending on how long this session goes… maybe the vampire gnoll encounter is pushed to next session? There is time between opening ceremony and the first event. It takes a half-day via transport to get to Easthaven – the days 21 and 22 are intended for provisioning (aka spending your gold in tentowns) but must of the spending happens at the taverns. There are also a limited number of transports so contestents can either walk (8 hours) or take a transport somewhere between day 20 and 22. As of crex on day 20, the pot is full, so dirty play ensues.
Games Schedule
It takes place the last tenday of Uktar each year.
Uktar Day 20 is Enrollment at Bryn Shandar (500gp per entry)
Uktar Day 23 is the first event – The Stones Throwdown in Dougans Hole
Uktar Day 25 is the second event – Ice Pit Riot in Good Mead
Uktar Day 27-30 is the final event -Frost Troll Head Roll. All contestants must return to Easthaven before nhyx on Day 30 else be disqualified-
The following day, on Moonfest, the winners were announced and rewarded in Easthaven.
Scene Notes – C01.S03.11
Cycle 01 | Shield 03 | Scene 11 | Notes |
What happens in this scene?
The main purpose of this scene is really to trigger the hook for the next cycle. Dawndra has come to Icewind Dale with two purposes, to test her martial skill in the Frozenfar Fray games and to attempt to learn something about her kin and kind. She was not in Bryn Shander long before someone mistakes her for someone named Shavisala – who it turns out may actually be her mother. She travels to Alzvar because this is where Shavisala is known to dwell.
Well… Shavisala will not actually be in Alzvar currently. She received news (by way of a skalds poem) of a village of Firbolg in Norland which had raised a strange castaway – a girl of white hair and white fur with giant porportions. Upon hearing the story, she left Alzvar for the Moonshae Isles to find this Firbolg Village.
Dawndra and party arrive in Alzvar and are welcomed by its sole remaining resident – a Frost Giant Skald named Sol Koli (naming herself, in part, after her hero the outcast Skald Solkona). Solkoli may also mistake Dawndra for Shavisala – and then welcome her in, knowing she surely must be the lost daughter.
But then what? Spent some time exploring the ice temple? The entire interior is intricately carved ice which will never melt. The artificer gift helf by Shavisala (and eventually Dawndra) began with Solkona. (Perhaps Solkona and a werebear fell in love? Maybe Solkona gave birth to a new race – kinda. Each Arktikos has one ready egg, one female child, that is dormant within until some event triggers its growth period and birth. That would mean a single lineage, born of an Empyrean. Maybe there is a magical chance that a full race can one day be birthed and allow Arktikos multiple children but for now, a single lineage is all that exists. Shavisala was a 100 years old when she gave birth to Dawndra and may live to see Dawndra turn 100
.
But that is all for much later… what about this scene/session?
Would Sol Koli give magical weapons away to the party? It is probably not her place
Would Sol Koli recite poetic lore? Of course she would.
Would Sol Koli ask the NPCs about themselves? The hear their stories? Yes she would
What else? I don’t want trouble in the temple – there is enough trouble elsewhere.
So this session:
Arrive at the gates
Meet Sol Koli
Learn of Shavisala’s departure and journey to Norlan
Hear the “Song of the Lofty Snow Lass”
Hear a story from Dawndra (“Share a story with Sol Koli?”)
Hear a story from Shent, Samsam and maybe Melthor
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Thrym
https://dungeonsdragons.fandom.com/wiki/Thrym
Alzvar…. The Ice Temple
Alzvar was once a frost giant temple created by Dwarves alongside the empyrean Solkona – daughter of Thrym and Auril. She was an empyrean – the elder sister of Nalkara – daughters of Auril and Thrym.
Solkona was good-aligned and hated the evil alignment of her parents. Where her father taught that beauty was deceptive and dangerous, she felt the pursuit of beauty to be a grand purpose. She was a lover of music and poetry and art. The early warrior Skalds of Icewind Dale were students in Alzvar and were taught by Frost Giant Skalds who followed and worshiped Solkona away from Thrym and his ways of war and blood.
Alzvar’s creators were redeemed Dwarves. Nalkara had imprisoned the Chainfist Clan of the Talagbar Hold in the Angsaas Chain. Solkona rescued the clan and relocated them to the Spine where they were free to find and make a new home. They choose a location somewhere east of Frostfalls Vale
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Iallanis
In the center of the Temple Alzvar, there is a massive statue of Iallanis.
The emperyan SolKonadesired to not only follow Iallanis, but to be with her. The Dwarves of Chainfoot Clan (or was it Chainfist? Or maybe… Chainaxe?)
wanted to repay SolKonafor rescuing them so they built the Ice Temple Alzvar. SolKonaimmortalised the ice with her magic.
dwarves built Alzvar temple to Ilallnis to honor Solkona, who desired to join her, and did
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Angsaas_Chain
before the Ice Run glacier covered the region, there was a dwarven hold in the Angsaas Chain
The population were enslaved and forced to make weapons for their enemies.
Solkonashared their enemy and freed them, relocating the entire hold to The Spine. The Dwarves buult Alzvar in tribute and thanks which expkains the beauty ot it
Sharvasla
So changing names is not fun… I came up with Shavisala back when I ran Snow Stalkers at a real table. The was always the destination for Nim’s delivery. I planned on making her a quest giver… “find my missing daughter” who was, of course, Dawndra. We never continued playing that storyline but… that is where Frozenfar Fray Games began. Dawndra was lost and th party would have discovered that she went to compete in barbarian games. The idea took time to develop beyond that, but it started there. Why did I change the name? I kept getting its pronounciation confused and it began to remind of me of other words. Maybe it really matters little… but after some playing with it, Sharvasla is what I have decided upon. It is important to like the names of your characters – as you write you repeat them over and over in your head, and then there is the proof-reading (if it goes that far). I dislike reading books with names that are difficult to pronounce, or otherwise strike the inner ear weird… you repeat names so much… I have given nicknames to charaters in books I read – when their name comes up in the text, I just substitute my nickname in my head… silly business I know. Point is, names should be 3 syllables or less and be easy on the ears. Sharvasla (shar Va sla) is preferable to Shavisala.
Lallargh and Hergatha
The Lofty Snow Lass is about Dawndra defeating Lallargh. It was actually Hergatha
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Hergatha
Hergatha also destroy Dawndra home village however…
And Dawndra does not know it yet
Back to the session 11…
Soll Koli wants stories. She will not tell Dawndra her own stories because “Sharvasla would be hurt if I stole that away from her” that is… Sharvasla has expressed a deep desire to find her daughter and tell her their story and Soll Koli would not take that away.
Does Dawndra tell a story?
Maybe everyone in the party does. (Perhaps some are doubled up)
Shent has lots of stories but is reticent to tell his own, perhaps he tells his fathers story?
Brallga tells a story about finding her sentient mace, Verna
Samsam (and Melthor) retell the Cliffs of Xovor
Garlvan and Thavlia recount one of their adventures together – perhaps in honor of Lorvus, their fallen Rogue
Dawndra has stories from the monastery, from traveling from Moonshaes to the coast and looking for a monastery, and may want to straighten the record about Lallargh
Scene Notes – C01.S03.10
Cycle 01 | Shield 03 | Scene 10 | Notes |
What happens in this scene?
Dawndra and party reach Frostfalls Pass (The Snow Stalkers)
There are four sections of The Snow Stalkers… The Icy River, The Trap, The Valley, and The Laboratory.
Frostfalls Pass used to be traveled by Giants primarily… Almsvar is tucked into the South side of the Alp. Others travel this pass for various reasons… exploration, mining, hunting… but it is not a popular destination compared to others… probably due to the rumors that the Frost Giants have returned to Almsvar.
What was Almsvar? A Frost Giant keep – a castle carved out of stone and ice.
Among the tallest of true giants, frost giants could tower higher than 21 feet and weighed about 8,000 pounds. The doors and ceilings within Almsvar are massive then.
What happened to Almsvar?
Lycanthropy… Could it be that this is where the Arktikos were born? Was it that a human frost druid was infected by a frost giant werebear and in trying to reverse the disease, transformed into something else? Cured of lycantropy, but no longer human either. Perhaps the mother or grandmother of Shavisala? Or further back? How does propagation work? Where are the men? Where are the other Arktikos? Perhaps driven North or East over the glaciers… but Shavisala returned to Almsvar – somehow learning the truth of their origins.
The Frost Giant Werebears turned on each other for food… destroying their numbers… mostly…
But all of that can wait because Dawndra and party will not find Shavisala in Almsvar… but they need to find someone… Someone who can tell Dawndra that her mother received a bards song telling of a white furred giant female living among the firbolg in Norland and traveled there the next day. This bard met Shaggy just a couple of years ago – before the village was destroyed. The bard befriended Shaggy and joined him on his walks, with the ulterior motive of getting stories of the firbolgs for his songs. The story of Aurora the White Giantess was soon being sung around the Moonshae Isles and eventually reached Waterdeep. (no telling how the bard came up with the name Aurora… you know how poets be…). The song embellished the stories told by Shaggy, making the White Giantess both alluring and dangerous. But it was the mystery of her story which made it catch on. Found floating from a shipwreck, just an infant. Raised by firbolgs but without any real kin, she grew up to fight back the marauding Lallargh of Norland. The truth is less exciting… Dawndra did have conflicts with the crone chieftain Lallargh but had nothing to do with her tremendous downfall.
I need to fill that story out too… but there is time.
So the river crossing… since this once was a giants road, there is no bridge but there are 2 large stepping stones. Rather than floating chunks of ice (which may still be) the challenge is to cross via the giants stepping stones. There is evidence that others have tried building small bridges between the stones but they have been washed away. There is a 10-12 foot distance between each stone – and each stone is slick with ice.
I think they must have to cross the river multiple times… the trail switchbacks up the mountain, crossing the river at least twice. The lower crossing is less dangerous because it flows into a deep pool which has underground outlets so the surface is only a wide and shallow flow of water with layers upon layers of ice under it. The second crossing, 60 feet up, is far more dangerous because of the amount of water and the speed of the river. Getting swept away here means falling into the deep pool on the lower crossing, and possibly being sucked underground by the torrent.
Shavisala is not a Frost Druid after all… she is an Ice Artificer. She can attune to ice and even create weapons of ice and can even transfer enchantments from most magical artifacts into the ice weapons. Dawndra will someday too… just finding and meeting her mom for the first time, that first touch awakens some magic within Dawndra to be able to attune to ice. Meld it. Advantage while standing on/in it.
Nim Bragos tells story of Shavisala returning to Icewind Dale later.
There is a Frost Giant residing with Shavisala at Almsvar. Neekica? Heeki? Helmikra? Yes
Helmikra is a female Skald. She came back to Almsvar to write her Epic Saga – Almsvar in Blood – after hearing stories of how the keep fell into chaos after lycanthropy swept through the population.
The Red Drakes:
Garlvan Skelto – A male Red Dragonborn Fighter (Leader)
Thavila Skelto – A female Red Dragonborn Sorcerer (Mate of Garlan)
Brallga Thornhold – A female Dwarf Cleric
Lorvus Hookint – A male Human Rogue (dead)
Owlbear Cave
The module has the body of Thalia booby-trapped. When I got to this point, I realized that detecting the trap and disarming it are two different things. Without a rogue or someone with Theives Tools – disarming the trap was not an option… the only option to move forward is to trigger exploding fire vial. Doing so would kill the barely alive Thalia so I had to ask myself a question… do I want the NPC Thalia alive? Yes I do. So then… what about this trap? Maybe it is not on her body, maybe moving her body will trigger a bang-bomb tucked under the offal. Maybe the point of the trap is not to kill but to warn? That would not need a body. Bottom line… I think… if the body is booby-trapped, Thavlia is already dead.
So maybe I rewrite the scene… maybe thavlia is not a booby trap but escaped? No… She was not captured when Garlan and Bruga were… She has been searching for them. When she entered this cave, she set off a trap and it nearly killed her. But why was she not there when Lovus was killed and the others captured? Hunting makes little sense, Garlan probably would have been doing that. Maybe privy-time? But how far away would she have been… maybe she fought? Karina used a toxic potion to knock out all four Red Drakes but she kept her consciousness and fought but was overwhelmed. She chose to run rather than die. The mutant (or another?) chased after her for hours. She returned the next day to find Lovus dead and the others missing. She found this case and triggered the trap while investigating.
What kind of sorcerer is Thavlia? Auroborn sounds cool
Level 3 Sorcerer
Traps Ref
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/5e_Traps
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/120170/searching-for-traps
Scene Notes – C01.S03.09
Cycle 01 | Shield 03 | Scene 09 | Notes |
What happens in this scene?
Dawndra and Shent get outfitted and travel to Frostfall Pass (The Snow Stalkers)
What about Samsam?
I threw Samsam into a scene just for a bit of liveliness… I wanted Dawndra to evoke the jealously of a young girl with a crush on Shent. Then she had to go and find her fathers sword… She is essentially a level 1 character running with a party of level 3. She is immature and impetuous and I have grown fond of her. So I am going to go back to the scene where Dawndra meets Nim and Norli and drop an mention of Samsam.
The Red Drakes
Also I am going to rewrite a bit of that scene to include a reference to the Red Drakes. I had thought to remove them from the Frostfall Pass scene but then I realized the published adventure depends much upon them… So then Shavisala has several artifacts in play. Nim has a list of items Shavisala wants (for experiments? For power? Or what? I need to fill out Shavisala some to know for sure). Nim will say he is awaiting the return of the Red Drakes so he can send them right back to Alzvar (and he was expecting to have to pay them extra for the double duty) but they have not returned after over a tenday. In this scene… they have still not returned so he fears the prior item was not delivered. In addition to delivering this new item… Nim asks Dawndra to see if she can find the Red Drakes and especially the package they were supposed to deliver to Shavisala and – if at all possible – deliver both into her hands.
The Outfitting
Norli has three small pouches for Dawndra and Shent. Each has a magic command word to open them. They open up to a large sack – large enough to hold a large thick shawl made of yeti fur. Unlike a bag of holding – which stores items in some other dimension – these sacks magically compress items down to one tenth their size and weight (they should be warned not to put living creatures within). I anticipate that Dawndra will place her Frost Troll head within the sack… and then carry a Yeti head in a large gunny sack – expecting that it will be stolen from her as she returns to Easthaven… tricky trickster yes?
These cloaks of course enchanted. Primarily they will produce heat just as they do for the Yeti. Now this is normally not the case… a yeti fur is still quite warm but usually lose their special properties once removed from the beast. Norli has found a way to retain this property. While wearing the cloaks, they are immune to the cold effects of whether and resistance to magical cold attacks. Also… they mask scent. While wearing these cloaks, they cannot be tracked by their smells which are magically erased. Additionally… they give the wearer advantage to Stealth check while in snowy/icy conditions. Perhaps I need to give them a downside? Some of Norli’s inventions are not quite ready for prime time. I don’t know… maybe leave that an open question for now. Let us say they normally sell for 2k gp – actual cost does not matter except that Nim will want to make a mention of it… to ensure the characters know they are recv’ing a bounty.
Norli also provides a simple blindfold for Samsam. It is an Archers Boon. Norli has identified, somehow, that Samsam will be joining them and that her role should be ranged. The blindfold will make any short bow a +2 weapon and if the target is engaged in combat with another – attacks have advantage. The downside is, she is vulnerable to attacks herself. Any round she uses the blindfold, attacks against her have advantage. With the blindfold on, she is blind until she draws a bow. Once that, she sees with superb clarity and even sees a bright red spot on the exact spot where the arrow will land (magical laser sights… duh!) but once the arrow is released, she is blind again.
Samsam again
Do I need to build out a more complete character sheet for Samsam? Or at least a statblock?
Speaking of Easthaven
They leave the Cliff Caves of Xover and help the remaining merchants return to Easthaven. Rather than write through this, I am just going to recap it briefly. Was Jyn’s master still alive? Let me ask the dice [()] 9 (odd) = No. Does this matter? I don’t know… but now the Easthaven household of Boonlin is left to Thabitha Boonlin and her keeper and secret love Jynelor. (which no longer need be secret). Perhaps House Boonlin is far wealthier than appearances suggest? Or perhaps far more influential? Or maybe these NPCs will fade into the background and be forgotten. It is too soon to tell. What else happens in Easthaven between returning the merchants and returning to Bryn Shandor the next day? Maybe nothing… maybe something. Hey Dice! Does Something happen prior to returning? 13 (odd) No. So then briefly recap and open the scene in the market place of Bryn Shandor.
What of the Serial Killer?
The merchants (who aren’t dead) in the caravan gave no clues as to who the Ice Rune Killer might be. Upon returning to Bryn Shander however, there was another murder – right behind the Northlook. This time the victim was not a judge in the Fray Games… but was a contestant. It looks like Torgs merchantry was in town this whole time and they become the prime suspect.
Pakbak Cinderfoot and Sephek Kaltro
I have to tie these two together somehow. Pakbak is a warlock with a frost druid lich for a patron. Perhaps Sephek also. Rather than make him an undead like in the book.. Perhaps just the servant slave of a mad lich? Sephek and Pakbak share the same goal – to cheat the games. Pakbak just wants to win the competition for glory but Sephek does not really care about the games, or really about Pakbak… he just likes the chaos and the killing. The patron summoned him to help Pakbak and he obliged… but he will not answer to Pakbak or his ranting whims. He may even kill Pakbak himself given the opportunity because he thinks the patron would enjoy that outcome. Of course, Sephek might not live long enough to do it.
Torg’s
Why is Sephek hired on with Torg’s? Well… why not? I will enrich that combat scene when it happens. Success against Sephek will also be success against Torg – and that will mean favor from the Tentowns.
Scene Notes – C01.S03.08
Cycle 01 | Shield 03 | Scene 08 | Notes |
What happens in this scene?
Dawndra and Shent (and two others tbd) leave Bryn Shander for Easthaven – a four hour trip with axebeaks. They are following a merchant caravan looking for a serial killer. They will find the caravan – at least whats left of it. The merchants are missing but their sleds are found covered in snow.
I am using the Cauldron Caves from Icewind Dale – Rime of the Frostmaiden. I also want to use the Magen from the published module so instead of a will-o-wisp and giant skeletons, the lake hag controls several Magen. It is a 7th-level spell, which means that Maud Chiselbone will need to be more powerful than the book provides (13th level wizard?). Also – Maud needs a source of Quicksilver… which is why these particular caves…
The pool in area U8 is frozen but at the bottom is a pool of quicksilver in pure form. Maud probably has minions digging at the ice like miners… scratch that… the pool is a a bubbling hotspring with a rich source or quicksilver at its base. Drinking or even swimming in the pool will poison you with overexposure to mercury, mercurialism. The pool is hundreds of feet deep
Maud found a Netherese sarcophagus in ancient tunnels under Lac Dinneshere… this is how I get around the 13 level wizard problem… the Magen Machine… a Netherese enchanted device… place the clean bones of a humanoid in the sarcophagus, spray a fine mist of quicksilver and close the lid. Using the rod (which she found with the sarcophagus) cast Create Magen.
Speaker Duvessa could only find two militia men on short notice. Both human male but give them longswords instead of pikes. Melthor & Harbert. Not sure I need more than that… Perhaps neither are thrilled to be assigned this mission. Or perhaps one is and the other is a whiner. Harbert sounds like a whiner so Melthor is eager to track down a serial killer.
What of Samsam?
Maybe she is more capable than Shent and Dawndra assume? Or maybe more foolhardy than any would give her credit for… They will have left by the east gate… traveling right past the Rest. Based on what I’ve written so far, she will be set on joining them. Perhaps Myrtle would say Ok to her request? If anything, Samsam will provide some comic relief… What I guess might have happened… Myrtle said forget about it. Samsam was honest and told them she couldn’t go and they bid her farewell… but then she found her fathers sword and decided to go after them anyway. She eventually catches up – near the cross road to Caer Dineval. Shortly beyond that, the merchant caravan is discovered abandoned. How many wagon sleds? 4. These were pulled by dog teams – who are still there, buried under snow and sadly expired. Samsam might have a small breakdown at this discovery… she loves dogs and the loss of 20 will break her heart.
They are still an hour away from Easthaven (3 hours from Bryn Shander). Lac Dinneshere is visible – as are the towering cliffs which wrap the North-West side of the lake. Dawndra will ask “where will the merchants have gone?” and Shent will answer “there -those cliffs… that is where I would go to escape a blizzard.” What is not apparent is that the merchants did not go of their own will. A Magen (Hypnos) appeared and was able to suggest they take cover in the caves along the cliffs
A total of 8 merchants and two guards abandoned their wagon sleds to find shelter – but never returned. (some may still be alive… sitting in a deep pit with a pile of bones which, at Maud’s will, joins together into a frost giant skeleton. It will lift a victim out of the ice pit to be thrown into the cauldron to have the meat cooked off their bones and then their bones will be used to create another Magen.
Maud has only been able to create a few Demos Magen easily. She created one Hypnos Magen but the effort took a huge toll on her. The Galvan Magen has not yet been created but she is still learning. She is trying to find a way to inflict the life force penalty of the spell onto another rather than herself. This is why she has kept her victims alive so far.
What if the will-o-wisp? The book calls it her “companion”
Statblock for the creature here and 3.5 SRD
It is both intelligent and wise – and they feasted on the fear of victims (making a good hag companion for sure) They are technically Undead but have a will of their own
Cycle 01 | Shield 03 | Scene 08 | Notes |
What happens in this scene?
Dawndra and Shent get outfitted and travel to Frostfall Pass (The Snow Stalkers)
What about Samsam?
I threw Samsam into a scene just for a bit of liveliness… I wanted Dawndra to evoke the jealously of a young girl with a crush on Shent. Then she had to go and find her fathers sword… She is essentially a level 1 character running with a party of level 3. She is immature and impetuous and I have grown fond of her. So I am going to go back to the scene where Dawndra meets Nim and Norli and drop an mention of Samsam.
The Red Drakes
Also I am going to rewrite a bit of that scene to include a reference to the Red Drakes. I had thought to remove them from the Frostfall Pass scene but then I realized the published adventure depends much upon them… So then Shavisala has several artifacts in play. Nim has a list of items Shavisala wants (for experiments? For power? Or what? I need to fill out Shavisala some to know for sure). Nim will say he is awaiting the return of the Red Drakes so he can send them right back to Alzvar (and he was expecting to have to pay them extra for the double duty) but they have not returned after over a tenday. In this scene… they have still not returned so he fears the prior item was not delivered. In addition to delivering this new item… Nim asks Dawndra to see if she can find the Red Drakes and especially the package they were supposed to deliver to Shavisala and – if at all possible – deliver both into her hands.
The Outfitting
Norli has three small pouches for Dawndra and Shent. Each has a magic command word to open them. They open up to a large sack – large enough to hold a large thick shawl made of yeti fur. Unlike a bag of holding – which stores items in some other dimension – these sacks magically compress items down to one tenth their size and weight (they should be warned not to put living creatures within). I anticipate that Dawndra will place her Frost Troll head within the sack… and then carry a Yeti head in a large gunny sack – expecting that it will be stolen from her as she returns to Easthaven… tricky trickster yes?
These cloaks of course enchanted. Primarily they will produce heat just as they do for the Yeti. Now this is normally not the case… a yeti fur is still quite warm but usually lose their special properties once removed from the beast. Norli has found a way to retain this property. While wearing the cloaks, they are immune to the cold effects of whether and resistance to magical cold attacks. Also… they mask scent. While wearing these cloaks, they cannot be tracked by their smells which are magically erased. Additionally… they give the wearer advantage to Stealth check while in snowy/icy conditions. Perhaps I need to give them a downside? Some of Norli’s inventions are not quite ready for prime time. I don’t know… maybe leave that an open question for now. Let us say they normally sell for 2k gp – actual cost does not matter except that Nim will want to make a mention of it… to ensure the characters know they are recv’ing a bounty.
Norli also provides a simple blindfold for Samsam. It is an Archers Boon. Norli has identified, somehow, that Samsam will be joining them and that her role should be ranged. The blindfold will make any short bow a +2 weapon and if the target is engaged in combat with another – attacks have advantage. The downside is, she is vulnerable to attacks herself. Any round she uses the blindfold, attacks against her have advantage. With the blindfold on, she is blind until she draws a bow. Once that, she sees with superb clarity and even sees a bright red spot on the exact spot where the arrow will land (magical laser sights… duh!) but once the arrow is released, she is blind again.
Samsam again
Do I need to build out a more complete character sheet for Samsam? Or at least a statblock?
Speaking of Easthaven
They leave the Cliff Caves of Xover and help the remaining merchants return to Easthaven. Rather than write through this, I am just going to recap it briefly. Was Jyn’s master still alive? Let me ask the dice [()] 9 (odd) = No. Does this matter? I don’t know… but now the Easthaven household of Boonlin is left to Thabitha Boonlin and her keeper and secret love Jynelor. (which no longer need be secret). Perhaps House Boonlin is far wealthier than appearances suggest? Or perhaps far more influential? Or maybe these NPCs will fade into the background and be forgotten. It is too soon to tell. What else happens in Easthaven between returning the merchants and returning to Bryn Shandor the next day? Maybe nothing… maybe something. Hey Dice! Does Something happen prior to returning? 13 (odd) No. So then briefly recap and open the scene in the market place of Bryn Shandor.
What of the Serial Killer?
The merchants (who aren’t dead) in the caravan gave no clues as to who the Ice Rune Killer might be. Upon returning to Bryn Shander however, there was another murder – right behind the Northlook. This time the victim was not a judge in the Fray Games… but was a contestant. It looks like Torgs merchantry was in town this whole time and they become the prime suspect.
Pakbak Cinderfoot and Sephek Kaltro
I have to tie these two together somehow. Pakbak is a warlock with a frost druid lich for a patron. Perhaps Sephek also. Rather than make him an undead like in the book.. Perhaps just the servant slave of a mad lich? Sephek and Pakbak share the same goal – to cheat the games. Pakbak just wants to win the competition for glory but Sephek does not really care about the games, or really about Pakbak… he just likes the chaos and the killing. The patron summoned him to help Pakbak and he obliged… but he will not answer to Pakbak or his ranting whims. He may even kill Pakbak himself given the opportunity because he thinks the patron would enjoy that outcome. Of course, Sephek might not live long enough to do it.
Torg’s
Why is Sephek hired on with Torg’s? Well… why not? I will enrich that combat scene when it happens. Success against Sephek will also be success against Torg – and that will mean favor from the Tentowns.
ToDo and Ideas for Heroes Gate
4/15
When I start Cycle Two… change to “Sessions” instead of “Scenes”
Flashback memoires
Build more of these in… sometimes they are longer… a whole “Session” long. Build Session long tellings of things that took place in the past. Also use other characters – use a solo session (or something like that) to glimpse in on Marlon Emberjaw or his sister, or some other shield. Intersperse these within textplay.
Also… Terra Emberjaw – in addition to running the detective agency at Delzorin Street – also runs other such businesses. One of which is a Guide Guild… Gwynma’s Guild of Guides. Perhaps Shent will be a member. Unlike Heroes Gate (party of 5) and Delzorin Street (part of 3) Gwynma’s Guild of Guides are adventures for a party of 1. The Wardens Guild will often hire a guide (Marlon knows about this side-hustle of his sisters, though not the Delzorin Street).
Also… what about the Iron Shadows? A guild of bounty hunters… Is this also Terra Emberjaws? If not, surely it belongs to a friend of hers… or an enemy… a social enemy… perhaps not directly… perhaps a social enemy of a dear friend in Raven’s Bluff? I am a ways off from this… but keep it simmering.
Back to Gwynma’s Guild of Guides… Adventuring Parties often need to hire a guide. Someone who knows the land, and the dangers within it. A Guide is different from a Warden… A Guide may or may not protect their client – depending on the situation. They may not even delve into the depths with the party – but they can get them there to the mouth of the mines. These can be shorter too – one or two sessions rather than 15-20. Guides can also be used as teachers…
As much as possible – every skill or feat is learned from a teacher (an NPC usually). New feats require a session with a teacher – like Yisi and Valea and their Defender feat. Also, go back into the early years of the monastery more… use flashback sessions to tell the story of learning Flurry of Blows or basic unarmed attacks, or the training which led to the proficiency with blades. These are told in first person… flashback style. No rolling or tables – the outcome is set. This way I practice more normal style of writing some
4/12
Rethinking the 5th member of each shield…
I really like the basic idea of Tanala Sola – a Rune Dancer Sorcerer. She is pure support… carries only a dagger and has rarely used it. As she is dancing, runes form overhead. She can then go touch another – friend or foe – and the rune will transfer to them and will remain as long as she dances. Some runes are buffs, some are banes. She has high charisma and high dexterity.
Mynnzi is starting to form into a very similar character in my mind. She sings and plays music. So at first thought… a bard… but what if she is also a sorcerer with a gift of music. She has aspects of the harpy – illusions of small harpies form in her hand and fly overhead singing songs of charming spells (somewhat lesser than the actual harpy monster). If a creature targets or attacks Mynnzi, or one of her harpies, they instantly have disadvantage against her charm spells and the DC increases.
Shaggy… he also has field benefiting spells. He can cause flowering vines to sprout from just about anywhere (2-3 rounds of concentration) If a player eats these flowers (bonus action if within reach), they gain hp or a buff or something. He is basically a druid but with a sorcerer like gift of magic
In all three… I could either make them strictly a sorcerer class with special subclass… or use the apparent class and restrict them… I’m thinking – just use the sorcerer class with a subclass flavored towards druid, bard, runewizard.
What about other classes in the shields? Both Everwelte and Iron Aegis have 4 monks and a sorceror… Northern Towers also has a Barbarian and some fighters… should I make Rodan and Brava monks also? And Kildar? Maybe he is a barbarian-flavored monk? His monastery was a cave in the Spine and his teacher was his mother… but she taught disciple and strength and honor… so perhaps he is not a barbarian class.
Why are Hit Dice based on class and not race? Maybe it doesn’t matter… I’ve maxed the max hp anyway – but a monk at d8 is never going to have the hp of a barbarian at d12… shouldn’t a goliath have more than d8? Maybe that is where constitution comes in… All my other monks – elves, dwarves, tabaxi… d8 makes sense but with the Northern Towers these are big monks… if I +2 their con scores, that is an extra 6 hp only at lvl 3. Maybe all this does not matter. I’m not going to let them die anyway – unless I want them to.
The only other reason for not playing monks is because I want more variation. But that is easily remedied by giving them extra bonus actions… that prevents always have to say “you follow up with a punch”. Maybe add something to the three monk bonus actions? Flurry is great for an unarmed fighter like Deynn… but why would Dawndra kick or punch if she has her ice pike in hand. Occasionally… sure… but every round? That gets boring. So then… give each monk some sort of subclass specific bonus action(s) in place of the “extra punch”… like some manuever to give advantage on next attack or some weapon magic that only uses a bonus
4/11
Watching a skyrim video with music – town is Riften and it made me want to play there. Should I consider uprooting the entire guild and moving it to Tamriel? After the first few missions, Marlon will get arrested and sent to Black Rose Prison in the Mere of Dead Men. Breaking him out of Prison is only the first objective… then what to do about the council who wants him out? Maybe the Wardens Guild at Heroes Gate needs to sit borded up for some time. Terra (did I change her name?) will be running the detective agency in Waterdeep. Perhaps the guild moves to another plane?
The Everwelte will go to Tamriel first – on a contract for Missey (7th level I said?) That same level, the Iron Aegis will go to Calimport and Nothern Towers will go to Garren Nor – all three are long term contracts
4/1
Fire silk – although perhaps quite some ways off… maybe the Roven’ris sisters travel to Tuern based on a rumor of fire worms being found in the Flame Fault.
3/24
Consider using this statblock generator to create stats for PCs? For use in ppt reference deck
3/17
Eventually… Take all of this practice and experience and build something I can publish. Move away from Faerun and Tamriel and Albion… yet be informed by them all.
Create lore books – campaign settings which can be read for entertainment rather than strictly as reference. Mimic the skyrim books and the Volo books where there are many writings by various characters in the world. Some writings are very reference-oriented but others are snippets of personal journals or other writings with character.
What to name my world?
Why does this seem an important first step? It is something to hang things on.
Zoe + Tabula
Tablet of life
Zotabuh
Zotaba
2/28/2022
Everwelte changes
Replacing Joloobo with Acoma
Should I allow Joloobo to die in the Feywild?
Or continue with him through another cycle and allow him to return to his forest? If he remains alive, he may return as NPC or even a quest giver / contract.
Acoma and Zoony are both, therefore, picked up from the feywild.
Perhaps Acoma is one of the entranced of Zoony?
Or how should I introduct Acoma? She is in the Feywild searching for her brother Chato. They could find Chato dead… find an artifact which links them and then connect the dots when they encounter Acoma
2/26/2022
Go back to scene 14… deynn should have put up more of a contest during the discussion on whether or not to kill the Red Wizard. He accepted it too easy and that does not fit with his character. I could also use the moment for a flashback… to a discussion with a teacher in the Abbey (ala Kwai Chang Caine) or maybe… maybe his insight emblem has influenced this decision… at any rate – make the decision bigger than it currently is
Also…. And I think I noted this elsewhere… but go back to Everwelte and somewhere insert a short conversation with Dawndra about her plans to travel North for the Frozenfar Fray Games. If I tack on the feywild quest to cycle one (which I am thinking I will, rather than making it a whole cycle) then I could just have a teacher tell them that Dawndra has gone north for the games… but maybe still – it would be best to have Dawndra herself express some excitement about the journey, the games, and the possibility of learning something of her kind.
2/23/2022
Delzorin Street Mysteries
Waterdeep Mysteries
Charlies Angels kind of thing… three wizards solve mysteries in the big city of Waterdeep
A wealthy mystery somebody named Charlimir (Charlie) runs a detective agency via a speaker stone and his personal assistant, Iarno (Bosley). His detectives are three beautiful women, who end up in a variety of difficult situations.
L’Khifrey Roethorn (Khi-khi) – Loremaster – Human
Ravralynn Loh’Delthos (Loh) – Bladesinger – Sun Elf
Words on White Bones (Bonesy) – Divination – Tabaxi
Charlimir is secretly Terra (Terradryn Emberjaw) the sister of Marlonmir Emberjaw – Guild Chief of the Wardens Guild of Heroes Gate. (but not even Marlon knows she is running this agency)
I had this idea to blend Dungeons & Dragons and Charlie’s Angels… no really… hear me out…
I am using D&D lore and settings as a place to write in.
Delzorin Street is a location in Waterdeep,which is a rather famous fantasy city for D&D in the world of the Forgotten Realms.
I’m creating 3 Wizards with a penchant for solving mysteries.
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- L’Khifrey Roethorn (Khi-khi) – Loremaster – Human
- Ravralynn Loh’Delthos (Loh) – Bladesinger – Sun Elf
- Words on White Bones (Bonesy) – Divination – Tabaxi
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I have a “Bosley” character – Iarno Albrek. (He happens to be the father of one of the wizarding detectives) In the official published adventure Lost Mines of Phandelver, he was portrayed as an evil villain… but in my possible world, he was simply undercover.
I also have a Charlie character – “Charlimir” which, of course, is not the person’s real name. None of you will remember, but a few of you met this character briefly when you played D&D with me a few years ago…
I will be writing in the same way that I currently write at Heroes Gate
http://heroesgate.wonderlore.quest/
It is an odd blend of roleplay, fan fiction, and fun (for me if no one else…).
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Harpers%27_Hold
Is Terra Emberjaw secretly a member of the Harpers?
Surely she has friends within the Harpers,she has friends every where
But with a Harper connection, some clients may come that way
2/22/2022
Joloobo… Not sure he really fits as a “Rogue” and as it is, he is the only character I did not homebrew a subclass for. Maybe Joloobo is really a Ranger Soulknife?
2/17/2022
For Stitch… I had a crazy idea… Stitch is a bard… and the opportunity may arise for him to sing a song. I was listening to AC/DC yesterday (She’s Got Balls) and I had this crazy idea to put those lyrics into the mouth of Stitch (credit to Aussie boys of course)
She’s got style, that woman
Makes me smile, that woman
She’s got spunk, that woman
Funk, that woman
She’s got speed, my lady
Got what I need, my baby
She’s got the ability, hey
To make a man out of me
And she’s got taste, my lady
Pace, my lady
Makes my heart race
With her pretty face
She’s got balls, my lady
Likes to crawl, my lady
Hands and knees all around the floor
No one has to tell her what a feller is for
Or perhaps a slight paraphrase to fit the time and place… but still.. This idea opens up thousands of songs and lyrics for use by bards in-game.
2/11/2022
Sunless Citadel?
Where to place it?
The top level is not kobolds but goblins with lycanthropy
Second level is the kobolds as written – but they have the relationship with the druid
Where is the spellbook? Maybe… not sunless citadel?
2/09/2022
GO back and add something to set up Dawndra for her trip to Icewind Dale and the Frozenfar Fray
1/28/2022
Lots of things to note from my walk yesterday.
Rey Ko Toh… He can enter into another space but when he does, time stops. He can pick 5-6 others in that space which do not experience the stop of time – he basically pulls them into the space between time. He can carry them to another space in the exact same time but he must tag them magically and the tag will not “stick” if they are unwilling to be carried. He can only leap around spaces a few times before exhaustion.
Speaking of exhaustion… use this more.
Rek Ko Toh also helps IronAegis “If you help me, I help you”. He cannot move forward or back in time, but he has gotten good and prediction. He can antipate things fairly accurately
Deynn and Roonoo – they must pass thru The Darkwood Hill on the way to Phandalin. Add an encounter here. When they exit and start the downward slope into the villlage, they see a beautiful elf lady dressed in temple garb walking hurriedly uphill towards them. She smiles and greets them and continues. Roonoo, perhaps, cautions her about going alone into the wood – after what they just fought. “I am not alone, Tymora goes with me.” and off she goes. Moments later, they hear her scream. Rushing back they find nothing helpful. There are tracks in the woods but they go in several directions… perhaps they find one set and follow only to find a small group of redbrands sitting round a fire eating some small prey. The Redbrands, of course, kidnapped Garaelle. She has been far too outspoken against them and they cannot have the only local priestess bad-mouthing them – else the townsfolk may rebel. She is taken to Tresendar Manor into the cages below.
Adalissi – when she enters into Phandalin – the messenger – the bird guy Syrinx (?) finds her and recognizes her at the High Priestess of Selune – and falls to his knees to honor her before giving her a message that came earlier in the day. Reading the message, Adalissi charges the sisters to find Garaelle and complete the mission – something critical calls her back to Triboar… and she leaves. The sisters begin searching for Sister Garelle – asking around…
Now the question is… where do they meet? Deynn / Roonoo and Leely / Ileel… a couple of options
In the Inn?
In the Redbrand Hideout?
At the Stone Giant tavern?
The abduction of Garelle ties them together. The sisters ask around and learn of a connection to the redbrands… Deynn and Roonoo now have multiple pressing things… The finding of Gundren, the finding of Colt and Darsley (they did not meet on the road), the finding of Iarno (Sildar and L’Khifrey drive this pressing thing), and now the finding of the beautiful young priestess.
Stitch
Tabaxi Bard from Tethyr. Full name is Stitch in a Sock. Known to most as Stitch but his mom calls him Socks. His mom is an elder at the bards college (Wintertalon Academy) in Darromar (Capital of Tethyr). Her name is Elm Tree by a River (Elm Tree). She specializes in teaching Lore (giving her a possible connection to L’Khifrey who seeks to become a Lore Master) and she is particularly knowledgable when it comes to her own kind – the Tabaxi. She has a book called the Blessings of Jone and Jode which is a mystery to everyone. She thinks it is evidence that the Tabaxi lived also in Melabrauth – the lost jungle I the Dragon Empire – Laerakond . She has formed a theory that Jone and Jode where worshipped in Laerakond by Tabaxi and somehow they were responsible for the disappearance of Maztica for a hundred years . She does not know the truth… that Jone and Jode are from another place entirely (Tamriel) but she does know the name “Khajiit”. She suspects that is just how the Tabaxi of that land referred to themselves. Anyway… all that leads to a personal quest for Valea Syh at some point. Elm Tree will recognize the symbol of Jone and Jode which she carries around her neck – but will mislead her into thinking her homeland is actuall Laerakond.
Dawndra – How to explain a Half Giant / Half Polar Bear / Half Human? Maybe the deranged Frost Druid who created her people a century ago was experimenting with genetics after meeting a Half Giant. They magically created a Half Polar Bear child who died early but not before having a litter of children by the half giant… in fact – it makes sense that childbirth of a litter of half giants probably killed her.
Lore – Start adding my own pages for locations like Conyberry and Phandalin… whenever I make small changes – reference the FR wiki but “in this possibility” things are slightly different… Don’t talk about multiverses and their ilk… just talk about “Possibilities”. Whether all the Possibilities exist somewhere side by side somehow is pointless and beyond our need to know… but the dice rolls and in some Possibilities, characters may look quite different or have different experiences
Collaboration – What does Garaelle look like? Build a table with different pictures – roll to see which picture fits. Also write up a version where another character is active has blank lines for dialog so that someone else can join in the Adventure Txtplay… this may be difficult – but I want to find ways to include others collaboratively… voice actors may want to record an extra scene
Character Sheets – I want to start distinguishing “Player” voices. The character sheet needs to be a place where player voice can come out. Step into each player.. Spend more time speaking as the player and not just the player character. Also – give each player character some sort of journal or gazette or the like. Each “Player” will contribute to the PC Journal regularly… reflections on things that are happening or dreams of what may come… no rules… just a forum for the player to speak and reveal things about the PC that do not happen in game. Something which can be emulated at a real table.
Scene Notes – Use these as a Catch All … within Scene Notes, tag the various other things such as DM Notes, Story Notes, etc – then write those notes later – a little more formally perhaps. Then Klay and Kinney will “find” the notes and begin to study them in dialog.
1/23/2022
Restructing things…
Much of what I have been calling “DM Notes” probably belongs to another category. I deal with character backgrounds and motivations and plot arcs and other stuff which I sort of planned to write separate notes for.
Here is what… I will rename DM Notes to Scene Notes… these will include all kinds of notes – whatever it takes to prepare for and finish writing the scene. After I write the scene I extract them into specific notes (as below) and link to them from the scene note (also catalog them in a Page)
Notes will be important soon… I plan on using Klay and Kinney to study the notes… perhaps something like “Klay and Kinney Learn How To Adventure”. The idea is that these two characters will come across Heroes Gate, read it and then have chats about what they learn from it… especially from the Notes section. Then I plan on publishing their study guide. Perhaps it is all too convoluted… but I like the idea… and I have decided to implement some courage and make it happen – if only for my own sake.
But back to categories for Notes
Maybe all the entire collection “Adventure Notes” since the writing itself is called “Adventure TxtPlay” (or what should I call it?). Adventure Notes is just a top level box for all actual notes. Some notes will be writen before the scene – like planning for it… and other notes will be retrospective… what did I learn? What could I do better? What did I do that I want to be sure to do again?
Notes vs Guides
Right now I am writing notes… I am basically talking to myself, brainstorming what might be and exploring ideas… That is how I use all “Notes”.
“Guides” on the other hand, are more formal. They include Character Bios, Lore Books, Quest Guides and Design Guidance. (maybe more?) Guides are polished for public consumption whereas Notes are informal and unedited (largely). The TxtPlay itself links out to both as there are associations but the TxtPlay is its own thing.
DM Notes
(Specific & General) These should be centered around how to DM a particular scene with insights into how to DM in general. I need to separate the DM role from the Design role. DM Notes should basically answer the question “How might I run this scene or encounter at a table?” Also some general guidance for the role of DM as I discover it.
Design Notes
(General) This is the content around Adventure Design (or Engineering, or Development ) – the RPG Writer role. These notes are about how to create and write adventures generally, not about this specific adventure, nor about how to run it for a table. Yet Design Notes will be attached to scenes… as I design the specific adventure (or redesign portions of published modules) (or even… as I analyse published modules) I want to capture those learnings here in a general way.
Quest Notes
(Specific) Much of what is currently written as DM Notes really belongs here… planning out, brainstorming style, how the specific scenes and adventures will go. This is valid whether I am writing wholey from scratch or modifying a published module. I also create a lot of LGFLs (Locations, Guilds, Factions, Lore) while I am “noting”… anything Lore related should be refined in the LGFL Guide. These notes should eventually be refined into “Quest Guides” – content which other DMs can use to run the quest at their own table. I’m doing the work… I should do it well, refine it and publish it. Others publish guidance for WotC Adventures. I should do the same – except I am hesitant to actually sell anything as a product… treat it like a blog and accept gratuities. But do it well… good enough to hope for Best Seller status on DMs Guild.
RP Notes
(General) Here are learnings about how to step into a character and think their thoughts and speak their words and walk in their shoes. It is also general guidance for Role Play, not specific to the current scene… but taken out from it… Something I did with this character is something I can do with other characters – if I remember. And writing Notes is a primary way for me to remember.
Character Notes
(Specific & General) Really this is a brainstorming board for what actually goes into the character sheet. When writing Notes I have freedom to write nonsense… take my character notes and then refine them into the character sheet. But Character Notes should also include general thoughts on what makes an interesting PC / NPC. As I read books on character creation – write out notes on those within the section but do not tie it to a scene or a specific character.
1/15/2022
Each Shield has an informal leader… Yisi, Deynn, Dawndra
I almost feel like starting over… but no – no good will come from that just yet. Continue on plan and let what is be.
Each protaganist is chasing one of three transcendentals – without really knowing that they are
Yisi is chasing Beauty
Deynnis chasing Goodness
Dawndra is chasing Truth
Each will struggle with common setbacks… “How can one go sideways while seeking Beauty?” Vanity and shallowness and maybe even addiction perhaps are common setbacks on that pathway. While seeking Goodness, one can become judgemental and self-righteous and elitist (though elitism seems a setback for all three). One can also despair of ones Goodness as well, falling into a hole of self-pity and disillusionment. While seeking Truth, one can doubt everything, falling into subjectivism or go the other way of elitism and ‘know-it-all-ism”
Each will also run up against a recurring enemy… Daine and the undead (the epitemy of goodness?) Yisi and the Dragons (are they somehow contrary to beauty? Or if not… what is? Hags?) and Dawndra and the Giants (only because she is part Giant, unknowingly, and that is part of the truth she seeks. Perhaps she also has some trouble with mindflayers who are all about lies and non-reality)
The heroes will go thru many adventures, in the Realms, in Tamriel… eventually they all somehow arrive on a plane or a planet somewhere.. Perhaps they fall back in time on Tamriel to a point where there is little structure… They are seen as gods… and perhaps that is where the real story begins… They have new names and form a society based on Prophets (Truth) Priests (Goodness) and Poets (Beauty). Perhaps it is here that I begin actual fiction… having written my way into improved skills with words, sentences, paragraphs, plots and people. Too ambitious? Perhaps just ambitious enough…
Change up PC sheet – again
Top level is Bio, Roleplaying ideas, Backstory, Traits, Personal Objectives
Then link to Stat Blocs – one per level starting at 03
Duplicate in online site
Idea
Just Now
..with Shea Eugene
Idea
Use Mythic Table and Inkarnate in Heroes Gate.
[IMAGE] justs links out to an image
Or…
[ImageNEEDED] links to a Collaboration page. That page has a link to a Survey “Why do you wish to contact me?” or “Why you are contacting me?”
Anyone can submit a link to a map, an image, a sidequest txtplay, . I will consider and add it to the site. If I select more than two, will create a page which link to a note about those two images with links
Idea
Use templates for content
Published the template but add links to articles in the example text. Article explains why the section.
Idea
User characters to explore the site. !!
ToDO
Later – Joloobo might mention he was never actually introduced – he just hangs around the backyard and goes offf into the mountains hunting. Have a Joloobo Session where is it all Joloobo hunting a troll or something.
Idea
Work to make an underlying story about the monastaries the heroes come from.
Wardens Guild of Heroes Gate
Aka
The story of the Three Monastaries
The Abbey Ironwall
Song Moon Temple
Treyvigg Monastery
Idea
SideQuests. Write short adventures and publish under SideQuests. Some may be used by characters and some may not. Link to Collaboration page so others can run the sidequest
Idea
Surveys. For Collaboration, or anything else, I need to give people the ability to contact me. I don’t want to be contacted by people wanting to sell me shit. So maybe… use Survey’s? I link to a survey, person fills it out with the understanding that I may contact them back as a result.
ToDo:
Build out some ideas for what happens when Vetla Coin of Tymora is used. I don’t think a simple table will be enough – but it should be the least. I think the coin works with alignment. If the will of its possessor leans towards the good of others, a good table is used. If the will leans towards the ill of others, the Black Bess table is used. Other things may happen as well, just randomly when having possession, without any flip of the coin. DM determines what happens. Vetla used it while angry and it brought down the scaffolding of the new tower project in Luskan.
ToDo:
Build out a table of feats used for monsters, NPCs and PCs. Make it easy to copy/paste into sheets
Idea:
Create an explorer character to tell the lore. Perhaps even Loremaster Ool. As Volo and Elminster are used to tell about monsters and places in interesting ways, add one to my version of the world
Idea:
Open a Slack or Discord chanell where people can interact with the the Shield Heroes in character
Adventure Idea
Rehash Dagger Vulu – the prized horse which needs protecting as he changes owners. Roonoo is the obvious source of this quest – maybe it is a side quest for him…
Website
Go through and add Next links in addition to links to Appreciation page and Collaboration page. Add to every page at the bottom
Monsters
Create a generic stat block for varying CR levels… When creating a monster or vNPC… just link to the generic block unless some tweaking is needed.
Flashbacks
Go back to first shield first cycle and add in some flashbacks for each of the PCs (Yisi, Valea, Joloobo). Maybe improve the format somewhat so it is obviously a flashback and stands out from the rest of the text
Notes
I include a lot of notes in DM Notes that really belong in Character Notes or Shield Notes… it feels like a major undertaking but I knew I would have to eventually sort through all of the notes pages, organize them, toss some, refine some… As I get further into Cycle one… the mess will only get more difficult if I don’t sort it. Plus… sorting it now will probably help future cycle’s be more focused when it comes to notes.
Clay and Kinney
Wondering if my notes should be in C&K dialog… as if these two personalities were actually writing all of this stuff. It would help set Heroes Gate apart from “second-rate fan fiction” even though, truth be told… that is what it is… but by roleplaying a couple of roleplayers… I might set myself apart. It is strange to use two names as a nom-de-plume… but perhaps I am counting in it being strange enough to gain attention and then at least good enough to earn some appreciation. Maybe… differences can be added in how the Shields are written and formated so that it might appear that either Clay or Kinney are doing the heavy lifting on any given cycle. Perhaps, however, if that is the only reason to do it, the effort is not worth it. If there are other reasons then maybe so.